Collectivism vs. the individual

[~E~]

The proposition I am arguing is a rather simple one. Left to his or her own devices, a man or a woman will find the inner Spirit through love. It is the love of two that brings about the family, which is the foundation of all societies. It is the family where love is tested, learned, and nurtured. And it is out of love realized that right action flows into every part of society, making society prosperous and wise.

Collectivism, on the other hand, has lost hope in love (and God immanent) and forsaken love for the worship of false gods. Despairing of finding love and the Spirit in the intimacy of the family (or even in the privacy of meditation), the collectivist searches for the Self outside himself. And in so doing he projects his own inner possibility onto a figurehead, the object of his emotional projection, a noble leader who embodies (it seems to him) everything wonderful and everything the collectivist can't do for himself. He who takes such godlike projections upon himself better be ready to pay the price.

My entire argument with F.A. Jones is based on this proposition. And it is my observation that B.H. Obama -- a skillful actor and politician, is playing with the same fire. He has accepted the role of an icon of the collectivist urge. In so doing he hopes to remake America in a way that will undermine and even destroy the very individualism that made her great. His first royal proclamation was to demonize the "greed" of capitalism, and make "corporate fat cats" into the whipping boy of his collectivist movement. From the get-go he spoke about "redistribution of wealth" and the lack of "fairness" in the way investments are taxed. His followers have picked up on that theme, and those who seek to consolidate power in Washington have made it into a mantra. I am saying these folks are the adversaries of the rights and perogatives of the individual, much the same as F.A. Jones was when he set about demonizing "the ego".

These frowning finger-wagging preachers will always see great sin in the crowds before them, because they have not seen the shadow of their own capitulation to the false gods of the old world...

Elias

[DirtyPenny]

I hope Obama finds these posts while surfing on his blackberry!

Good reading and insightful prophetic discernment here. (Serious. Not being facetious.) But, be careful: Obama may want you to move into the White House to keep him on the straight and narrow, lol.

BTW, have recently examined this Wilber integral politics "map" and it seems to be right on in some respects. (Yeah, perhaps I've been zombified, who knows?) Is Ken really a taboo subject here? No one even looks at that link I posted in the banter forum (where he talks about Eckhart Tolle and the shadow).

[GW in Ohio]

Elias: While I disagree with most of your comments on Obama, I'm nevertheless pleased to see you segue-ing into politics, which is intertwined with our aspirations for the higher consciousness, in a tangential way.

I've been following politics long enough to realize that decent people can hold completely opposite political views. Another thing I've realized is that liberalism and conservatism are yin and yang opposites that depend on each other to prop themselves up.

And the final thing I've realized from following politics is that the human spirit transcends politics and that human beings have been able to achieve spiritual heights even under the most repressive political regimes.

I've often wondered how intelligent and insightful people were able to live during the Middle Ages, when the Catholic Church dominated every aspect of people's lives with its leaden, repressive theology, and I've come to the conclusion that they ignored it, or joked about it, and went about their lives, fornicating merrily in an age when it took great courage to fornicate.

And so it is today. Politics is important, yes, but what's more important is to transcend politics and embrace liberalism and conservatism equally, and even embrace the odd Marxist who wanders into our lives.

And in the meantime, until we all reach the higher consciousness, politics remains great fun and great theatre (e.g., Larry Craig, Rod Blagojevich) and the best entertainment value around. So stay in that politics groove as long as you like, E.

[DirtyPenny]

Amen! I'm actually glad he didn't feel reserved. He might have had concerns of some bs flaming going after he posted initially. Besides, we may have zombiefied portions of our minds, creating blindspots, that may need a jolt or two. (This "we" includes Elias, who undoubtly is served by hearing responses from others.)

Elias: While I disagree with most of your comments on Obama, I'm nevertheless pleased to see you segue-ing into politics, which is intertwined with our aspirations for the higher consciousness, in a tangential way.

I've been following politics long enough to realize that decent people can hold completely opposite political views. Another thing I've realized is that liberalism and conservatism are yin and yang opposites that depend on each other to prop themselves up.

And the final thing I've realized from following politics is that the human spirit transcends politics and that human beings have been able to achieve spiritual heights even under the most repressive political regimes.

I've often wondered how intelligent and insightful people were able to live during the Middle Ages, when the Catholic Church dominated every aspect of people's lives with its leaden, repressive theology, and I've come to the conclusion that they ignored it, or joked about it, and went about their lives, fornicating merrily in an age when it took great courage to fornicate.

And so it is today. Politics is important, yes, but what's more important is to transcend politics and embrace liberalism and conservatism equally, and even embrace the odd Marxist who wanders into our lives.

And in the meantime, until we all reach the higher consciousness, politics remains great fun and great theatre (e.g., Larry Craig, Rod Blagojevich) and the best entertainment value around. So stay in that politics groove as long as you like, E.

[Sophia]

From my own experience I know that one only becomes self-aware equal to how much love, self-reflection, giving of oneself, and one's own creativity that evolves from that formula.

I'm not going to be joining a mass projection onto a man who looked afraid, Imho, when the election proclaimed him the winner, and he brought his whole family onto the stage. As I have said before, been there done that with Frank, aka Adi Da.

Some may think I am bashing Obama, but, I am stating something that I think needs to be stated. All you worship lovers are putting too much weight on him, and he will soon become something more than you hoped for.

He is going to fail...here, there, and everywhere, and I think I'm being kinder to him then any of you "followers".

And, why are you comparing him to Bush. Within your hopes, and projections, you see him as "the new beginning". To me it is a lame argument to compare him to Bush and what Bush left behind for Obama to clean up as means to stucture your purpose.

Do you really think one man/woman elected as president has all the power to turn everything around? Do you not think that Bush had a Congress, Senate, and advisors to turn to, to trust, to deal with, to...

Bush walked away happy when Obama officially became President, i.e., rid of "The Hill". I hope Bush now sleeps well, can relax, and enjoy his family. I hope he takes many rides with his horses out on the range.

Sophia

[RandomStu]

Back in the glory days of 2007, when I foolishly believed that Communism really was dying... I wrote a blog post on the issue of tribalism. I was specifically thinking in terms of religious groups in which people downplay their individuality for the sake of group loyalty, but the concepts apply directly to the issue of collectivism vs the individual in all realms, political and social and otherwise. I'd be very interested if anyone would look at it and comment on how it applies to what E has brought up here:

http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.c ... ribes.html

Thanks,

Stuart

[~E~]

Back in the glory days of 2007, when I foolishly believed that Communism really was dying... I wrote a blog post on the issue of tribalism. I was specifically thinking in terms of religious groups in which people downplay their individuality for the sake of group loyalty, but the concepts apply directly to the issue of collectivism vs the individual in all realms, political and social and otherwise. I'd be very interested if anyone would look at it and comment on how it applies to what E has brought up here:

http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.c ... ribes.html

Thanks, Stuart

I read it. It's a great post.

In an absolute sense tribalism (or collectivism) is an attempt to escape the self. It is just too damn scary to realize that the self is all there is, the whole construct and de-construct of existence. So we opt for consolation in tribes and "tribe-think".

But everything you are (or think you are) -- including your sense of losing your individuality in a tribe -- boils down to a moment (probably found somewhere in the afterlife) where you sit bolt upright and whisper "oh my, everything that seemed to exist has just been reduced to this barely tangible 'I' " ...and then you blink out of existence. Call me when it's over.

~E