Just a quickie...

[Elias]

Frank had the general idea about enlightenment. He knew some of the right words. But he had a completely wrong idea about himself.

This isn't an uncommon problem, in the Age of Narcissus. Folks are ever ready to have themselves viewed as some glorified image, thanks to our media-saturated culture. And Frank bought into that big time, most likely listening to the voices of various archetypes who told him how fabulous he was as a way of distracting him from inspecting and penetrating their maya.

It is exactly as if Buddha had succumbed to the seductions of Mara, and as if a Christ had succumbed to the temptations in the desert.

If Buddha or Christ had succumbed to the temptation of a glorified self, they wouldn't have been Buddha or Christ of course.

They would have been Frank.

~E

[bene dawa]

This isn't an uncommon problem, in the Age of Narcissus. Folks are ever ready to have themselves viewed as some glorified image, thanks to our media-saturated culture.

Man, you nailed this. It's the darkside of the DIY, decentralized media culture I think. In many ways, blogs and youtube and the rest of it are incredibly useful and wondrous, but its like meth for all the western ego addicts. Twitter is a perfect example of this -- "follow me on Twitter as I pick up my laundry..."

I'm still processing that McLuhan quote you posted regarding do it yourself culture, so this is a nice continuation on that theme.

Actually, who gives a shit what I think?

[...oneLove]

Actually, who gives a shit what I think?

You might be surprised!

...vegeman

[mdpc]

What you guys said!

BTW, i'm eating a late-lunch as I write this. Stir-fry with broccoli, carrots, tofu. It's been raining here today.

Seriously, though, as a 36 yr-old, sometimes I find it frustrating to communicate with younger people whose styles of social interaction are so heavily shaped by their habitual texting, im-ing, facebooking, twittering, etc...for instance, people will try to conduct important conversations entirely via text messaging, which is a ridiculously inferior mode of communication in which to be discussing important stuff.

So, as bene dawa implied, yeah, I guess as with most technologies there are good and bad aspects.

[~E~]

What you guys said!
Seriously, though, as a 36 yr-old, sometimes I find it frustrating to communicate with younger people whose styles of social interaction are so heavily shaped by their habitual texting, im-ing, facebooking, twittering, etc...for instance, people will try to conduct important conversations entirely via text messaging, which is a ridiculously inferior mode of communication in which to be discussing important stuff.

As an old fogey who is stuck back in the archaic technology of 2005, I have to agree. All this new stuff is for idyots with too much time and too much self-involvement on their hands.



~E

[friend]

If Buddha or Christ had succumbed to the temptation of a glorified self, they wouldn't have been Buddha or Christ of course.

They would have been Frank.

That is so well put. That really does nail the distinction betwen frank and a true realizer. Unless I missed it somewhere along the line, I'm surprised no one has made the point quite so succinctly before. Thanks.

[RandomStu]

If Buddha or Christ had succumbed to the temptation of a glorified self, they wouldn't have been Buddha or Christ of course.

I'd imagine most of us here have done some serious meditation practice etc, and probably had a few moments in our lives of extraordinary experiences. Experiences at least somewhat similar to those that led Frank to believe he was the "greatest realizer" and "first last and only" yada yada.

When I had such an experience, I felt this powerful urge. The experience was so glorious that it overshadowed all I/my/me thinking. Except there was one thing... maybe I could let go of those other attachments, all of them, and only cling to one little thing, the idea that the experience made me something special, something more than ordinary beings. I was detatched from so much, how could it be so terrible to just hold onto this one little belief, this one tiny concept?

I had a teacher, though, who helped me see that holding onto this glorified "I" sets heaven and earth infinitely apart. The nature of the experience is a trivial matter; what's important is whether or not we hold onto ideas of "I" moment to moment.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

[~E~]

If Buddha or Christ had succumbed to the temptation of a glorified self, they wouldn't have been Buddha or Christ of course.

I'd imagine most of us here have done some serious meditation practice etc, and probably had a few moments in our lives of extraordinary experiences. Experiences at least somewhat similar to those that led Frank to believe he was the "greatest realizer" and "first last and only" yada yada.

When I had such an experience, I felt this powerful urge. The experience was so glorious that it overshadowed all I/my/me thinking. Except there was one thing... maybe I could let go of those other attachments, all of them, and only cling to one little thing, the idea that the experience made me something special, something more than ordinary beings. I was detatched from so much, how could it be so terrible to just hold onto this one little belief, this one tiny concept?

I had a teacher, though, who helped me see that holding onto this glorified "I" sets heaven and earth infinitely apart. The nature of the experience is a trivial matter; what's important is whether or not we hold onto ideas of "I" moment to moment.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Stuart ~

I think you have well described what may be the greatest problem in the spiritual universe...and the greatest stumbling block to enlightenment.

I imagine God, in His meditation, scratching his head and trying to figure out how He is going to deal with all the Spiritual Bigshots who have tasted just enough of the Divine Reality to get an oversized Spiritual Ego. Somehow it is easier to deal with sinners -- at least they have some built-in self-knowledge and humility.

This question goes way back, and was an issue in Gnosticism and early Christianity. When the New Testament speaks of “thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers" the reference is not only to earthly powers, but to heavenly hierarchies.

In 1 Peter 3:1-22 it states we are saved "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” I.e, all the Magnified Spirit Identities are subject to the Wisdom of Christ.

In Gnosticism these invisible powers are at war with each other and even with God. Here is a great one --
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/hypostas.html

As Jung as pointed out, much (or all) of this is actually a description of the human psyche in its deeper aspects. But for the narcissistic personality (like F.A. Jones) these myths of cosmic self become a kind of reality spilling over into the bardos and beyond.

How do I deal with it personally? Easy...I put my personal love relationships before all else. It is when you abandon the personal and the intimate that you get in trouble, because collective non-personal relations are always imbued with projections and mythic expectations.

Give me a family member who farts, picks his nose, and loves to read Stephen King novels over any one of the fancy-pants gurus, guru-wannabes, and political psychopomps. My brother is real. These other guys can't really be known -- and in most cases don't want to be known. They just want to be your "movie screen".

Elias

[Shakta]

This, imho, is precisely what makes Frank such a valuable lesson. Vimalananda, Robert Svoboda's Guru said that you can fall at anytime that, "even a Rishi can fall." Yea, Da was no rishi but there were so many lessons to be learned by watching him make all those mistakes. It's like he became a sith lord, instead of a jedi (Ha!)! Ostensibly the personality and psychology can survive the attainment of siddhi, or Enlightenment. No teacher is perfect and we need to forgive the personality of a teacher to a certain extent. Obviously, forgiveness is something that will not happen for Frank from many people.

[...oneLove]

Ostensibly the personality and psychology can survive the attainment of siddhi, or Enlightenment. No teacher is perfect and we need to forgive the personality of a teacher to a certain extent. Obviously, forgiveness is something that will not happen for Frank from many people.

Things would have been quite different if Frank would have realized his shortcomings, recanted his FLO status and asked for forgiveness. As it stands, the devotees that would be moved to forgive him would be the ones who would benefit the most; they would then be able to move on with their lives.

...oneLove