The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Franklin Albert Jones ~ born 11:21 AM November 3, 1939 (New York time) ~ died 5:10 PM November 27th, 2008 (Fiji time) ~

The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby ~E~ on Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:56 am

The Adi Da Up Close website -- http://www.adidaupclose.org/ -- says it is not officially associated with Adidam. And indeed, it appears to have been created by former Daists. Here is their policy statement:

This site is not officially associated with Adidam. ...The perspectives or commentaries that you find on this site represent the viewpoints of the individual authors or our editorial and review staff. They should not be taken as an official viewpoint.


Then, addressing the question of the "Murti Guru", the editorial staff makes the following statement:

Traditionally, an esoteric spiritual tradition like Adidam is perpetuated from generation to generation, in perpetuity, through a lineage of Gurus that can be traced backed to the Founder of the tradition. Like one candle lighting another, each lineage-Guru passes on the Transmission to the next. Furthermore, each trains the next in the function of "Spiritual Transmitter". To the extent that the lineage preserved its integrity, the original Transmission would still be accessible to future devotees, hundreds or even thousands of years down the line, via the Guru lineage.

For a time, Adi Da considered a similar notion as one of many means for preserving His Spiritual Transmission here in perpetuity. He used phrases such as "Murti Guru" or "Living Murti" to refer to the Adidam form of "lineage" (properly qualified — see below):

[Adi Da] will not have "successors" in the usual sense of a lineage of Gurus. But He will have the Instrumentality of His Spiritually Awakened formal renunciate devotees, and, always, in every generation, there is to be one among His Divinely Self-Realized devotees . . .who will function as "Murti-Guru", or as His human Agent, perfectly transparent to Him. The "Murti-Guru" will grant Darshan (just as Avatar Adi Da Himself does in His human Lifetime), and will be His principal human Agent of Spiritual Transmission. By this means, Avatar Adi Da Samraj will always have a human vehicle through which the Force of His Spirit-Blessing will Flow perpetually. Thus He will never be absent, either Spiritually or humanly. -- Carolyn Lee, The Promised God-Man Is Here

However, as those familiar with how He works know, Adi Da constantly evolves, tests, and refines the structure of Adidam; His ongoing consideration about what would constitute the "Pattern" that functionally would replace Him after the passing of His human body was no exception. As He further clarified and elaborated on the uniqueness of His Guru-Function — as First, Last, and Only Seventh Stage Adept, etc. — it also became increasingly clear to Him and all His devotees that no single human being could perform His Function — unique to the His Divine Incarnation — and that it would be more accurate to describe the entire collective of devotees (including any and all advanced practitioners in the Way of Adidam), along with all His Sacred Treasures and Empowered Places, as what would, together, replace His Function in perpetuity. Indeed, in reaching this final conclusion — that the collective of devotees would be serving as His "Instrumentality" — He was returning to His original vision that He described in the early 1970's; "Murti Guru" was thus simply an alternative He temporarily considered and ultimately rejected in the ongoing consideration.


So here we have a little extra-communal group claiming to speak with authority on the matter of the 'Murti Guru'. I wonder if they are aware that they are committing heresy, not having been empowered by the Official Church to deliver canonical declamations? ;)

Adi Da said so many things, over the years, contradicting himself, changing his mind, even advocating opposing points of view as a way of testing his devotees. Who is to know what the final and absolute truth is relative to "His Law"?

Surely there will have to be a committee formed, within the Institution -- a kind of Vatican Curia -- to make a determination of what can be published and promulgated as The Articles of the Faith. And from where will they draw their power? Were they appointed by Da...or self-appointed? Will they be a product of a political struggle just now beginning among the core devotees?

At the same time, suppose one among them sees Da in a vision and Da says "I appoint you my Murti Guru". Yeah, I know that's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. Speaking of stranger, suppose Bill Stranger gets up one day and tells everybody he is the new Murti of Da. What happens then? Well, those who believe him, or those who long to have a figurehead rather than milling around like a bunch of bereft souls, will accept him as their Da Murti and go off to form a schismatic community, claiming to uphold the true lineage!

The "non-official" article on Tong's "non-official" website already sows the seeds of that kind of dissension, imho. It presents itself as stating real deal Daism, when in fact all it can do is "express a viewpoint of an individual author or editor".

And I can disagree, both as an individual and as an author-editor. For instance, I think there is a legitimate question whether the last thing Da said is necessarily the absolute and ultimate word that should be referred to for authority. One might make the case that he spoke closer to the truth in all or many matters at an earlier stage of his career. Or, one might make the case that as trans-temporal Consciousness his thoughts can't be arranged chronologically, but must be viewed in a circular or spiral fashion, with validity present across the spectrum. I mean, it is so Newtonian to assume that the Murti Guru concept is a dead fish because of something Da said later about "returning to his original vision of the 1970s."

The 1970s -- that would mean Radical Understanding, owl sandwiches, and a kind of mass enlightenment. There's no sign of that occurring in this community, so why shouldn't his daughter step forward, claim the Chair, and get on with it?

Elias the Exegete

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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby Raimundo on Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:45 pm

A very provocative and insightful piece, Elias!

I don't think Naamleela WANTS the Chair - I sure wouldn't! ;-)
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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby DirtyPenny on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:28 pm

This member of Adidam named Richard debunked the following points (in a comment at my blog, responding to the Naamleela article):

1)BY doesn't really know anything. He's been gone a long time, "many years".

2)Guru Murti not likely.

3)There's no "politics" going on. That's just BY projecting. (This talking point debunking/spin related to BY of course doesn't count as politicing, lol.)

So....hope that settles it! Clearly, I've learned a lot, like what a "bottoms up" outfit Adidam really is. And, how there's no politicing going on.
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On the Marijuana Topic

Postby Raimundo on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:52 pm

I thought that was a particularly low blow from "Richard" about Conrad smoking pot when Adi Da might easily have been the most prodigious smoker of all time! When I watched a 3 hour multimedia presentation once and Adi Da was in the room there was a joint in his hand the whole time (and not the same one by any means). Shame on you Richard! (I know it isn't Richard Silk because he isn't all that good at written English). LOL!
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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby DirtyPenny on Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:01 pm

Yes, I was also thinking of Adi Da's frequent chain smoking of dope. He didn't hide that at all. As for BY, I have no idea whatsover what HIS personal habits are regarding dope and I'm not interested in knowing. Means nothing at all, but this Richard guy seems to think people would actually care about that sort of thing.

It's such an obvious Political Tactic (and low blow, like you said), that I happily "approved" the whole comment. For public educational purposes.
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Re: On the Marijuana Topic

Postby \mb on Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:18 pm

Raimundo wrote:I thought that was a particularly low blow from "Richard" about Conrad smoking pot when Adi Da might easily have been the most prodigious smoker of all time! When I watched a 3 hour multimedia presentation once and Adi Da was in the room there was a joint in his hand the whole time (and not the same one by any means). Shame on you Richard! (I know it isn't Richard Silk because he isn't all that good at written English). LOL!


I was just speaking to one of my ex-Daist friends regarding Da's kicking of the bucket and the general state of his health. Before my friend left the community, he was invited to about a dozen or so parties at Bubba's abode, by virtue that he had formed a relationship with one of the (then) ex-gopis. He said he personally saw him single-handedly polish off a fifth of Jack Daniels in about 1 1/2 hours on more than one of these occasions. No surprise to anybody really - the man could really "hold" his liquor as well as all other party accessories. My friend also said it was clear from the outset that the prevailing vibe at all of these parties was that the majority of attendees were demonstrably "wowed" by Da and those who were less than enthusiastic were eventually weeded out not invited back. C'est la vie...et la mort!
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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby Broken Yogi on Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:27 pm

The Adidamer named Richard, and the "up close and personal" site are probably correct that things have changed since I left Adidam in regards to the status of Murti Gurus. That bit of lineage dharma was enshrined in the Dawn Horse Testament for many years, but I've heard that the DHT had been stripped of all authority in recent years by Da, and replaced with this new five-book series that has yet to be published, so it could well be that he's renounced the lineage model, and settled instead for the rather amorphous "the community is my Incarnation" model. I certainly have not kept up with the latest dharma changes, but who can? When I was in Adidam, such things were always being changed around, and you could never really tell what the latest "authoritative" word was on any particular subject. I wonder if Da has really "closed the book" on the Murti-Guru lineage format, or if he's merely taking into account the possibility of his dying without leaving anyone behind who is fit for such a role.

The general point is that anything can happen. When Richard says that I'm projecting in suggesting that politics will come into play following Adi Da's death, I just have to laugh long and hard at some of the very, very silly things devotees say now and then when they are trying to defend Adidam. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has ever been involved with Adidam knows that politics always play a big part of everything that goes on in Adidam, so why would it possibly be different now that Adi Da is no longer around to referee those political squabbles? People in Adidam are certainly human, and human beings play politics, so why is it some kind of "projection" to assume that people in Adidam will continue to play politics with their religion? The question is not whether they will do so, but what kind of politics they will play. There are certainly many ways it could play out, but it will definitely involve politics. Who gets to sit on whatever "board of elders" or whatever it gets called, that calls the shots? Well, that's a political decision. And who gets to decide who, in the future, actually does enter the "higher and ultimate stages of practice"? Again, politics will decide. Adidam is a hugely political organization, organized around monarchial principles, with a King and a Court and priests and nobles and merchants and peasants and all the usual manifestations of that political structure. I certainly doubt that will change. But when the King dies, and everyone is left with that vacuum of leadership, which has never been experienced before, well, nature abhors a vaccuum.

Now, as for pot-smoking, let's be honest. I learned to smoke pot in Adi Da's personal company. I was never a pot-smoker until I began to attend his small, intimate gatherings, in which pot was freely used, or should I say, was required of everyone present. So I went along with it. But as with all such things, I've always been a tea-totaller. I smoke only a little bit now and then, and have never had an addiction to it. Whereas not just Adi Da, but his entire retinue, were completely addicted to the stuff when I was involved. Many of them, and I mean many of the senior leadership, and the RSO, were stoned out of their minds for months on end, and apparently encouraged to be so stoned by Adi Da himself. They made presentations to the community while stoned, they made major decisions about the community while stoned, they meditated while stoned, they did their devotions while stoned, and I do recall one of them telling me how he felt certain he was being groomed for the Murti-Guru function while stoned. So if Richard wants to throw that mote into my eye, I think he ought to remove the plank from his own first. Adi Da's own use of pot was, as with his drinking, quite phenomenal, and quite comparable to a Jamaican Rastafarian. I don't know if it continued up to the very end, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he passed away while stoned. But that probably won't be mentioned in the official accounts. I don't condemn him for it, people need whatever they need to get through this life, but throwing stones while living in stoned houses is something that only stoners would do.
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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby Broken Yogi on Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:35 pm

Dirtypenny, could you post a link to your blog?
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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby DirtyPenny on Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:39 pm

Yes, it's called A Forest Wanderer's Notes and the address is http://atiasrama.wordpress.com
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Re: The 'Murti Guru' heresy...

Postby ~E~ on Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:35 pm

DirtyPenny wrote:Yes, it's called A Forest Wanderer's Notes and the address is http://atiasrama.wordpress.com


If you are using the Firefox browser you should see the link, along with links to other blogs, in the right sidebar of this forum. If you are using the Microsoft browser, I think it appears below the forum...unless they fixed the way their browser reads php.

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